Where there’s Hope

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i don’t think the Primitive was this one, on Coppice Lane… Image from David Vodden’s ‘Around Pelsall and Brownhills in old photographs’

Just pulling this enquiry into the light that was submitted a couple of days ago. Anyone got any ideas – is the Primitive the one on Coppice Lane, Mount Zion or one of the ones up West? I get confused between the different Methodist chapels.

G’Day Bob

I stumbled across you rather cool blog while searching my family history. Turns our most of them were coal miners from Brownhills and Essington Woods. I am hunting for any old photos of Hope Cottage Road Ogley and the Primitive Methodist Church in Brownhills any ideas where i might be able to find them I am in Australia so can’t visit.
Thanks Aussie Cynic

aka Kesa

Hope Cottage Ogley Road sounds familiar. Any ideas?

Kesa -Thanks for your interest, you are one of a growing Antipodean audience. Welcome to Brownhills! if you have any names there are several people here well into genealogy, so do drop us a line…

Comments here, or mail to BrownhillsBob at Googlemail dot com, please.

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28 Responses to Where there’s Hope

  1. Andy Dennis says:

    I think you are right, Bob, about Coppice Lane. I also believe that the chapel at Brownhills West was more mainstream Methodist, as was Park View (opposite the Prince of Wales, Watling Street). Two chapels of the Primitive Methodists spring to mind: on Watling Street, opposite Knaves Castle was Mount Pleasant, aka “the little chapel” (I think this might have been a ‘tin tabernacle’) and there is one labelled on the 1880s mapping on Brownhills High Street, at the corner of Pier Street (now vacant), both long since demolished. I don’t have any pictures, though.

    Instinct tells me Hope Cottage is on Lichfield Road.

  2. David Evans says:

    HI Bob
    HIgh Street Brownhills, by Pier Street was a Westley Methodist CHurch. Mount Zion, on HIgh Street, Brownhills,was a built as a Primitive Methodist Church. Brownhills West, Rehobeth, by the Rising Sun, was a Primitive Methodist Church. Mount Pleasant, opposite Knaves Castle, was also a Primitive Methodist Church At one time there were 12 places of worship in Brownhills!. Both Primitive and Wesleys joined to become the Methodist Church. The “Prims”tended to be the more actively involved non-conformist group of the two re;- in miners’ welfare etc hereabouts. Essington Wood still has a very active (former Primitve) Methodist church.
    kind regards
    David

  3. Andy Dennis says:

    Hope Cottage, Church Street. 1871 and 1911 censuses refer. Somewhere between the Shoulder of Mutton and the school house (just below the church).

  4. kesa says:

    Thanks Bob for answering so quickly. The main Family I am researching is the Bradley/Braidley family. Susannah married John Chilton and Betsy Married William Bullivant Woodhouse. It appears the family where in the area for several genarations however this is the line which came to Australia. I am close to finishing as much as you can the Bradley’s and am hoping to include as much person history ie who they were and where they came from as I can.
    It is important to remember not just the names but who these people were and Brownhills was am important part of their lives.
    Thanks all

    • pedro says:

      Hi kesa

      Don’t want to put a damper on your research, but in November 1910…

      John Chilton, High Street, Brownhills was summoned for allowing his chimney to be on fire at 1 pm on Saturday November 5th… PC Oakes stated the facts…Supt Oakden said that the Brownhills UDC had issued notices calling attention to the prevalence of this sort of offence…Defendant was ordered to pay 5s towards the payment of the costs.

      Of course it might not be THE John Chilton!

      All the best Pedro

  5. pedro says:

    KESA A SHOT IN THE DARK!!

    Fri 22 March 1903 the Lichfield Mercury reports a golden wedding in Australia that would be interesting to Brownhills’ readers.

    Mr and Mrs Bradley are natives of Staffs England and are now in their 71st year. They arrived in NSW in August 1884 and have since resided in Wallsend…

    There is much more so let me know if this could be the family!!

    All the best Pedro

    • pedro says:

      Should read May 1903 and not March.

      • kesa says:

        Yes Pedro this is my mob. Your good mate, Tops.
        This is I would think William and Emma Bradley, The parents to Susannah wife of John Chilton.
        How can I get the article?
        lol about the chimney, that sounds like the family but not too late…
        Bob you are legend thanks for doing this for me

  6. David Evans says:

    HI Kesa
    Norton East Primitive Methodist Church, Norton East Road, Norton Canes..I remember an old church steward there..Mr Jim Braidley..circa 1960..I would say he was in his late 70s then…He lived in a house just by this little church. The church has been demolished but you might see it and Jim’s house on.Google Earth timeline back to 1945 or so….just across the road from the lake.
    cheers
    David

    • I Want To Breathe says:

      He would certainly be family member. Braidley/Bradeley/Bradley are the variations in the name same with Chilton gets Chillington/Chilliton/Chilton. I am currently searching for where he connects I am thinking most likely he would be through Edward Braidley and Mary Mouseley, which were parents to William. am checking Google Earth now
      Thank you you have given me another piece of the puzzle.
      Kesa

  7. pedro says:

    Hi kesa,

    Here is the full article, not as long as I first thought as is the case with many of these things, they suddenly start off on something else. I will send the clipping to our Bob, but here is the rest…

    An interesting event was celebrated at the residence of Mr and Mrs Bradley sen, Irvine Street Wallsend, on Saturday evening, when a large number of relations, augmented by a number of friends assembled for the purposes of congratulating the couple on the advent of their 50th anniversary. Mr and Mrs Bradley are natives of Staffs, England and are now in their 71st year. They have been married since March 1853. They arrived in NSW in August 1884 and have since resided at Wallsend, Mr Bradley following his occupation as a miner at Wallsend Colliery, up to a couple of years ago, when the weight of years and increasing infirmities compelled his retirement from active service.

    The family originally numbered twelve, four of whom have been dead for many years. The remaining members, three daughters and five sons, are all married, and with the exception of two now in England, are located in Wallsend or its immediate vicinity. Thiry three grand children and nine great-grand-children are numbered amongst the descendants of the couple. Mr and Mrs Bradley were the recipients of many tokens of respect from relatives and friends, among which was a purse containing a sum of money contributed by members of the family. They thoroughly appreciated the kindly feeling that prompted the family demonstration. A pleasant and enjoyable evening was spent.

    The Lichfield Mercury had taken the story from the Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners’ Advocate, of April 9th of the year, so you may be able to check futher.

    Well Kesa, what a story eh! Great to be part of it!

    Regards Pedro

    • I Want To Breathe says:

      That is amazing, and the fact it went all the way back to Lichfield, The Two members of the family they refer to were Eliza Cochayne nee Bradley and Arthur Bradley m. Martha Ann Beards.
      Thank you for forwarding this on, there are the thing which brings the people to life and gives us sense of what the family was like.
      Thank you very much Pedro, I am well chufted
      Kesa

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  9. David Evans says:

    HI Kesa
    possibly originally named Bradely? William Bradely born 1841 living with mother Susannah and family in Darlaston in 1851..not too far away from Brownhills. Also, a Braidley family living in Commonside, Brownhills, near Lindon Road, in early 1900s,perhaps there in late 1890s.
    good luck!
    David

    • Kesa says:

      Hi David and thank you.
      This William I think is a branch of my Bradley. From what I can tell so William and Emma Bradley where the only family from this line whom came to Oz however there may be a brother who also came but I have not confirmed that yet.
      Bradeley, Braidley, Braideley and Bradley seem to all be the same family and in some instances the same people.
      I have the same issue with Chilton, Chillington the records state both names for some of the family.

      I will look into this line and see if I can a connection to them.
      It has been amazing to found out who these people were and if not themselves then by the people they had around them.
      A place leaves a mark on a person, it helps shape who they are in many ways and from what I have seen Brownhills seems to have left a very warm and friendly marker.

      I have managed to find back in Bradley line back to Richard 1634, Sedgley and Mary 1635 Wombourne, Staffordshire. Then the trail goes cold.

  10. David Evans says:

    HI Kesa
    Happy New Year
    Chilton;- name certainly rings a bell. One branch of that family possibly farmers at Yoxall..their Primitive Methodist church was at Woodhouses, hamlet just outside Yoxall. Brownhills West original Prim Methodist chapel was a wooden hut in Wilkin Road near Hednesford Road, in easy walking distance to Norton East Road. There was also a big Prim chapel in Norton Canes many years ago.
    Jim Braidleys father was Isaac Braidley born 1838 in “Shropshire” ( but registration districts then may not be present-day counties, and early census details often vague especially when people had moved from place of birth ..Their only records would be the family Bible, which could only be passed on to one of the family children!)
    Kind regards
    David
    .

    • Kesa says:

      Hi David
      The Chiltons were descendants of Joel Chilton1807 and Jane Walker the Children were very young when they both passed he Oct 1856 and her 1856. They ranged from 17 year to 4 years.
      Joels parents are William 1741 mar Ann Ferriday and if my research is correct I am back to Roberti/Robertus mar Isabellea Scutt 1627 but it is a bit of assumptions in there. Johns wife Susannah had a sister Betsy she married William Bullivant Woodhouse in 1873 at St James Church Ogley Hay. William Bullivant Wodhouse lived with his Uncle Georges family in Lichfield (I don’t know why) from 1861-1971 until he came to Oz.
      There were several Chilton I believe from this line still in the area although I no idea who they are today. It is amazing how large the family has grown, so far 594 descendents of William and Emma Bradley and growing. The Chilton is incomplete with just under 200.
      I am hoping to compile a reasonable story for the families along with a history of where and why. Include things about the main places folk stories, and the quirky things that makes a place unique and wonderful.
      If it would be better manners I can include my email, I do not wish out last Bobs and everyone hospitality….
      You are truly lovely folks

    • Christine says:

      I know this topic is quite old but just to clarify the information about the Bradley’s in Norton Canes. Jim Braidley, my grandfathers brother, was a coal merchant who lived in Norton East Road. His wife was Martha and they had four children James, Florrie, Nellie and Polly. Isaac his father was born in Pontesbury, Shropshire. The name has changed from Bradney/Braidley/Bradley over the years. Isaacs father was Eli and Eli had two brothers, John and Isaac. Isaac never married and John and his family emigrated in 1860 to Utah with the Mormens.

  11. David Evans says:

    Hi Kesa
    no problems as far as I am concerned..I expect Bob won’t mind..he’s probably out chasing badgers again..sort of primitive English ritual…so I will come back to you with what I can find, if that is okay with your goodself…. In the meantime there are photos of Mount Zion Primitive Methodist Church,demolished 50 years ago or so, HIgh Street Brownhills and Rehoboth chapel in Brownhills West “somewhere” in this blog. Perhaps a kind reader can point you to the correct article..
    kind regards
    David

  12. Kesa, David…

    This is on a phone so may garble. He’s right. I’m up on the Chase looking for wildlife. Badgers if I’m lucky.

    Please, if you’re happy to, feel free to continue this discussion here. I can tell from the logs that an awful lot of folk are following the discussion and it’s rather wonderful.

    If there’s anything you’d rather not, just shout.

    I, for one, am finding it riveting, and it’s a great example of family research and genealogy for others.

    Cheers

    Bob

  13. David Evans says:

    Hi Kesa
    1851 England census. Staffordshire/Darlaston/ district 1e image 6 (page 22)
    living in Cock Street, Darlaston, (near Walsall);-
    Susannah Bradely, widow, aged 29 , three sons, William aged 10, (already working, as stone miner!), Jeremiah aged 7, Benjamin aged 5.
    cheers
    David

  14. David Evans says:

    HI Kesa
    It seems that;-
    Joel Chilton had a son, also Joel, born 1841. His widow, Mary Ann Chilton was living with her daughter Florence Ann Croxall and her son in law Eli Croxall at the Central Stores,( in Norton Road, perhaps, or by the Central Methodist Church?) in Pelsall in 1911 census . Their daughter, Mary’s grand daughter, was Gladys Croxall, born 1908.
    I hope that blog readers with Pelsall / Croxall connections will be able to help further as 1911 census is the most recent of the cenusus available ….
    (Pelsall is a former mining village only a few miles from Brownhills)
    David

  15. Andy Dennis says:

    I’ve been looking at Chiltons. I believe the John Chilton of chimney fire fame (or infamy) was the man who appears in censuses 1881 Church Road, 1891 High Street, 1901 Church Road and 1911 High Street, Ogley Hay. He was born in about 1865 at Lawley Bank or Dawley, which are both parts of what is now Telford, Shropshire. His grandfather was James Chilton born about 1817 at Lawley.
    John Chilton 1865 is clearly not the one who emigrated to Australia with his wife Susannah in 1884 and appears not to be related to Joel Chilton 1807, though it seems unlikely that there is no connection further back. Joel’s parents were Richard and Ann, but I have not found a baptism for James 1817.
    The John who emigrated appears in the 1871 census as a boarder with William Bradley and family, including his daughter Susannah at Church Street, Ogley Hay, next record to Hope Cottage, occupied by a John Croft. This house was between the Shoulder of Mutton, in what is now Church Road, and the Church (St James). It is long since demolished, but looking at censuses it seems likely to have been where St James Home is now. If you view ground level on Google earth, face the shoulder of Mutton, then move right, past the short terrace of houses (passing the answer to Q1 en route!), past Short Street, somewhere between the two pedestrians was where I think Hope Cottage must have been. In 1911 the cottage was occupied by a William Colley.
    The name of Chillington has been mentioned. I wonder if this is to do with place. I may be barking up the wrong tree (or just plain barking), but the Chillington Estate is not so very far from Dawley. It was (is?) owned by the very wealthy Giffard family, who remained loyal to their Catholic tradition through all of the strife of the 16th to 18th centuries. If there is a connection, baptisms may not have been recorded by the Anglican (Parish) Church, but may have taken place at the chapel on the Chillington Estate. (I have some ancestors who were baptised at another of their chapels at Bishops Wood.)
    If I can help some more please ask.
    Good hunting, Andy.

    • Kesa says:

      HI Andy and wow this huge thanks you.
      Yes the Joel whose parents are Richard and Ann is correct Richard Chilton mar Ann Cooper Jul 6 1806 Wrockwardine Shropshire England this one looks to be the most likely.
      Richard looks to be have born Sep 8 1782 Dawley Magna Shropshire, Passed in Much Wenlock. Ann was also born in 1782 in Dawley. In a few of the records I found on LDS site I have John and his family as Chillington and a few other references do cross the name between Chilton and Chillington I had assumed it was because of accents and translations, but was never sure. I never new of a Chillington Estate. A new line of enquiry.
      I believe Richards father to be William Jun 29 1741 Wroxeter passed 1808 Whitgreave Staffordshire England, Married Ann Ferriday b. Nov 9 1746,Dawley, Mar.Jan 24 1769 Dawley,
      Must admit to being slightly disappointed about the John. Although the family I have found were friends of The Kelly’s (the Bushranger) family and new them quite well.
      I am hunting Google to find the image and hopefully the home.
      John Boarding with the Bradleys’ is very interesting as it shows they were known to each other for a great deal of time. They must have been friends as well as relatives for the Bradleys to follow them to Australia.

      My John did have a brother Joel born 1840, Willenhall Stafford England passed May 17 1906 Park Street Bridgtown Cannock Staffordshire England he married Mary Ann Hicks Aug 8 1863 Shropshire. David, I had Mary Ann Passing in Jun 1907, she’s in then 1911 Census then argh… But that is the correct line. Thank you… I had no idea where the family went after Joel Jnr passed the records I found were a bit sketchy.
      Thank you Heaps off Hunting

  16. David Evans says:

    Hi Kesa
    some incidental information for you. Brownhills Primitive Methodist Church. The one on the HIgh Street was called Mount Zion and was built in 1895. This replaced the original chapel building there, which was built in 1856 or thereabouts. Mount Zion was demolished in 1964.
    A mile to the west is Brownhills West, and where the A5 and A452 join there was a brick chapel called Rehoboth which opened in October 1892.This, too, was not the first chapel. The original wooden chapel stood in Wilkin Road, near the junction with Hednesford Road, and rejoiced in the nickname of “Noah’s Ark”. Whilst there may be photos of Mount Zion and Rehoboth, I doubt whether any photos or sketches exist of the first buildings, sadly. But you never know!
    kind regards
    David

  17. pedro says:

    Hi Kesa,

    ” he married Mary Ann Hicks Aug 8 1863 Shropshire. David, I had Mary Ann Passing in Jun 1907,”

    This may be a complete red herring…

    but in Nov 1893 there is a clip concerning a Mary Ann Hicks from Alvecote. She had summoned a man called William Fulleylove, carpenter, for using threats, and then requested to withdraw the case as the defendant had asked her forgiveness. It was the second time he was summoned for threats, the first by his wife. The case was withdrawn, but he had to pay costs.

    Just another shot in the dark!

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